TOTD 12/18 - Did I miss something in the Wonder Woman movie?

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Lemon Merchant
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TOTD 12/18 - Did I miss something in the Wonder Woman movie?

Post by Lemon Merchant » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:51 am

I just saw Wonder Woman. I must say that I loved the film. I truly did. However, one thing that is bugging me is that Diana is visibly aroused frequently by the male lead. Coming from an island of Amazons, you would think that she would be a lesbian, yet none of the Amazons on the island seemed to be romantically involved.

Is this a comic book thing? Or did they just gloss over it? I just seems weird to me to have a large group of fit, beautiful women living on an island together with no men, and not having romantic/sexual relationships. Sorry, but our sex drives are too strong for that. I had always heard that Amazons mated, but I have to admit that my knowledge of their lore is lacking.

Can someone clear this up for me, please?
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endsjustifythememe
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Re: TOTD 12/18 - Did I miss something in the Wonder Woman movie?

Post by endsjustifythememe » Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:37 pm

Amazonian women are a great example for one of the longest ongoing memes in human history. They are the archetypical 'other' and the object of European exoticism.

A Greek version of the Amazon story, told by Herodotus:

'Herodotus mentions that when Greeks defeated the Amazons at war, they sailed away carrying in three ships as many Amazons as they had been able to take alive, but out at sea the Amazons attacked the crews and killed them. But the Amazons knew nothing about ships so they were driven about by waves and winds and they were disembarked at the land of the Scythians, there they met first with a troop of horses feeding, they seized them and mounted upon these they plundered the property of the Scythians. The Scythians were not able to understand them because they did not know either their speech or their dress or the race to which they belonged, and they thought that they were men. Scythians fought a battle against them, and after the battle the Scythians got possession of the bodies of the dead, and thus they discovered that they were women. After the battle Scythians sent young men and told them to encamp near the Amazons and to do whatsoever they should do. If the women should come after them, they were not to fight but to retire before them, and when the women stopped, they were to approach near and encamp. This plan was adopted by the Scythians because they desired to have children born from them. When the Amazons perceived that they had not come to do them any harm, they let them alone; and the two camps approached nearer to one another every day: and the young men, like the Amazons, had nothing except their arms and their horses and got their living, as the Amazons did, by hunting and by taking booty. One day a Scythian and an Amazon came close. They could not speak to each other because they were speaking different languages but the Amazon made signs to him with her hand to come. Later the young Scythians and the Amazons joined their camps and lived together, each man having for his wife her with whom he had had dealings at first. The men were not able to learn the language of the Amazons, but the women learned Scythian.[3]'

They have a lot more going for them. Hyppolita was one of the amazonian queens. At one point, according to Diodorus, the Amazonians tried to conquer Atlantis. Moreover, said Herodotus, "No girl shall wed till she has killed a man in battle". Realistically, the 'Amazons' obviously never existed as such, but rather were misattributions of Kurgan/Scythian/Lybian women who actually fought in battle (together with the men).

As far as the movie goes, the answer is very boring, but clear:

'Greg Rucka, one of the longtime writers of the Wonder Woman comics, recently declared that the character is bisexual.

It makes sense, since she comes from the legendary island of Themyscira, which is populated entirely and only by women. No men in sight.

Although that doesn't explain how the Amazonians originally came into being, we do know that Diana, aka Wonder Woman, is the demi-god daughter of Zeus.

So do the legendary warrior women have relationships with each other? Gal Gadot says that it makes sense.'

So yeah, not much left to speculate about. WW isn't gay and she certainly isn't straight. She likes to try new things, but is picky about your forefathers not being ancient greek deities.
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Valka D'Ur
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Re: TOTD 12/18 - Did I miss something in the Wonder Woman movie?

Post by Valka D'Ur » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:04 pm

Lemon Merchant wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:51 am
I just saw Wonder Woman. I must say that I loved the film. I truly did. However, one thing that is bugging me is that Diana is visibly aroused frequently by the male lead. Coming from an island of Amazons, you would think that she would be a lesbian, yet none of the Amazons on the island seemed to be romantically involved.

Is this a comic book thing? Or did they just gloss over it? I just seems weird to me to have a large group of fit, beautiful women living on an island together with no men, and not having romantic/sexual relationships. Sorry, but our sex drives are too strong for that. I had always heard that Amazons mated, but I have to admit that my knowledge of their lore is lacking.

Can someone clear this up for me, please?
I haven't seen the movie (did used to watch the TV series decades ago).

Have you ever read any novels by Marion Zimmer Bradley? One of her historical fantasies (I consider it fantasy since she treats Apollo as though he really exists) is called The Firebrand, and is a retelling of the Trojan War from the pov of Cassandra of Troy (spelled as "Kassandra" in the novel). In the novel Cassandra is sent to live with the Amazons for awhile when she is a young girl (the Amazon Queen is a sister of Hecuba, Queen of Troy).

She finds out that the Amazons prefer to live without men around because men are too disruptive and violent toward women, but they will mate with the neighboring Kentaurs (men who mostly live only with men unless they've bought or captured a woman). The point is that this mating happens when the Amazons decide. Female children are kept by the Amazons, and male children are given to the Kentaurs to raise. The Amazons are warriors, and fight on the side of Troy in the war.


Or you might like the Free Amazons/Sisterhood of the Sword/Renunciates of MZB's Darkover series. The main characters in those books and stories do have same-sex relationships (as well as marrying and divorcing the same Terran man and choosing Darkovan men as fathers for their children when they decide to have children). There's a trilogy of novels I can recommend: The Shattered Chain, Thendara House, and City of Sorcery, as well as a slew of Renunciate/Free Amazon stories in the various anthologies.
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Cutlass
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Re: TOTD 12/18 - Did I miss something in the Wonder Woman movie?

Post by Cutlass » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:12 am

I think with any superhero story or movie you can't expect too much in the way of reality. Which is to say, essentially none at all.

One of the problems with the comic book superheroes is that the stories have been going on for some 1/2-3/4 of a century. And so since that's way too long for a human lifespan, they've been 'rebooted' repeatedly. And because of that, what is 'canon' to the story has changed so many times that for all intents and purposes there's very little that can be called canon, and in the case of WW, which has a least a toehold in ancient myth, even that is subject to rewrite.

So, to answer your question, there just isn't enough there to say. Are the Amazons essentially ageless, and live without men all that time? Then I'm sure there are lesbian relationships. But that doesn't mean they would make it into the movie, as the movie just didn't spend a lot of time covering that ground. (And, let's face it, the makers of such a movie have to consider what their audience wants, and won't like, and movie executives, and the financiers who fund the movies can be real cowards.)

It took a lot of years to get the WW movie made. I heard of people working on scripts for it maybe 15 years ago. None of those scripts worked out. I even came up with my own WW backstory, although I couldn't think of a way to make the modern story.

If Amazons aren't eternal, then where do little Amazons come from? Even if they are, where to replacement Amazons come from? I sort of thought in terms of shipwrecked sailors washed ashore on their island. But, as there are few of them, and lot of Amazons, and the Amazons are so tough, the poor sailors don't last long. :twisted: Now that doesn't prevent a lot of lesbian relationships the rest of the time when they aren't making little replacement Amazons. But it wouldn't necessarily make it into the movie.

And Princess Di isn't pure blooded Amazon, in the movie. She's half sexual predator godling. So she's not quite like the others.

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Re: TOTD 12/18 - Did I miss something in the Wonder Woman movie?

Post by Lemon Merchant » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:20 pm

Cutlass wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:12 am
I think with any superhero story or movie you can't expect too much in the way of reality. Which is to say, essentially none at all.
Yeah. I suppose that's true, and they were probably hoping for some younger viewers in the audience too.

I was reading the other day how one film executive and a director were talking about how film companies have focus grouped themselves out of a lot of good movies, just because they were too afraid to make them. I would like the article, but I can't find it anymore, sadly.
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Cutlass
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Re: TOTD 12/18 - Did I miss something in the Wonder Woman movie?

Post by Cutlass » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:20 am

Lemon Merchant wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:20 pm
Cutlass wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:12 am
I think with any superhero story or movie you can't expect too much in the way of reality. Which is to say, essentially none at all.
Yeah. I suppose that's true, and they were probably hoping for some younger viewers in the audience too.

I was reading the other day how one film executive and a director were talking about how film companies have focus grouped themselves out of a lot of good movies, just because they were too afraid to make them. I would like the article, but I can't find it anymore, sadly.

Another thing I've heard is that an awful lot of what happens in Hollywood is actually having the shots called on Wall St. That is, money talks. And the money doesn't understand the making of art. Only the making of more money. This is why there's so many sequels, remakes, and movies and shows that are a lot like other movies and shows that have been successful. It's also why so many new young actors and actresses look like one another. It has become more and more uncommon for something to come out that is significantly different from what has worked recently.

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